THEY are paving the road to Marble Head!

[MuddyPaws 3.0]

I am going to meet with the DNR this week to see who is funding and driving this project. I have not heard anything about it.

We went out to Marble Head this Saturday and came across many many spots like this. Looks like the work is on going and will encompass the whole trail out there.

there were many of the hoes that were filled in. Not just this one.

Water holes like this....

http://www.timstrader.com/web/land-use/100_0973.jpg

Now look like this....

http://www.timstrader.com/web/land-use/DSCF0141.JPG

[Beefy]

:cry: I was sad

[Trucks are for girls!]

that's kinda gay!!! why are they doing this?

[xj97sport]

that rickeys jeep?

[miffy]

There going to take all the fun away.:sadpanda:

[MuddyPaws 3.0]

that rickeys jeep?

I dunno...just nabbed the first pic I could find on my hard drive of that hole.

[Grandman]

My guess is , this is there way to keep the road open . If it is not upgraded they will close it all together . I suspect that will be your answer .

[chop]

now i dont have to drive around that big ass mudd hole that thing was deep haha

[Beefy]

now i dont have to drive around that big ass mudd hole that thing was deep haha

Get a wind shield punk

Now I know your gay

[chop]

Get a wind shield punk

Now I know your gay

ok we can go mudd bogging theres no skill involved you point and floor it. but you get to clean it deal? i wont even put a top on it

[Beefy]

I don't floor it :wtf:


Why would I clean your rig?

Gay people don't like cleaning mud :wtf:

[pre4runner]

I don't floor it :wtf:


Why would I clean your rig?

Gay people don't like cleaning mud :wtf:

Hey what are you trying to say.


It does suck that they are filling it in but i think :marv: is right

[MuddyPaws 3.0]

I think the sled association is behind it. That hole has been there for at least 12 years and has not gotten any worse.

[439]

I heard two things this weekend, Sledders, and They want to make the trail from Glen Cove Beach to Marble Head accessible by minivans, etc. This all came from we people\hunters we ran across on the trail, so I took it with grain of salt.

[Mongo]

I heard two things this weekend, Sledders, and They want to make the trail from Glen Cove Beach to Marble Head accessible by minivans, etc. This all came from we peoplehunters we ran across on the trail, so I took it with grain of salt.



We need to have Brent(Drummond) make a call to the Bear Track and talk to Steve Walker.

[Beefy]

x2

[drummond]

ill do that this week.

[Beefy]

:nate: Brent is my hero

[MuddyPaws 3.0]

When it comes to the sleds, you have to watch who you talk to in order to get straight answers.

[Evil Queen]

damn...and I just got a snorkel for the spring run :cry:

that hole was one of the reasons too.

[whiterhino]

I had emailed Bob Devore about it. Below is the dialog.

Jim to Bob:
this part of the game plan to create ORV routes on Drummond? Filling
them in?
http://www.michiganwheelers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9170

Bummer.
JK

Bob to Jim:
We knew initially there were three areas that were going to have some improvements made:

The skidder hole in which the picture was taken as it had become 4 feet deep at the on end;

Clear Lake Road which had become impassable for most at two troughs that held 4 foot of water;

The log jam because the logs had floated up and out of the low spot they once inhibited (the corduroy logs were to be re deposited into the trail and drainage added to try and restrict the corduroy logs from leaving the trail again.

Jim back to Bob:
The heartburn I have on your below comments are this; IF and I repeat IF this is supposed to be an ORV route where 4 wheel drive is permissible and the trails are supposed to offer a challenge, who is it to decide that a hole is impassable? If there is a bypass, why not allow the hole to remain and offer a challenge to those who want to try it? You say it’s impassable. I say, maybe for you but maybe not for me or for the next guy.

My concern is that we are once again predetermining what is an acceptable challenge obstacle. Those of us in this state that have well built rigs WANT to be challenged rather than have all hole filled in because a lesser vehicle is not capable. If you do that, you are once again reducing the challenge to the lowest common denominator. Maybe all trails should be passable by my wife’s stock trail blazer. Poke poke This is wrong.


So far Bob has not replied to my last email.

[MuddyPaws 3.0]

Pewp

This is something that GLFWDA is involved in and agreed with?

Disappointing if this is the case.

[drummond]

Here is my talk with Steve. Might not be as bad as it seems. Yes we are losing somethings right now, but when it becomes an ORV Route the land will take its natural path, and begin to change back to its old ways.

Hello Brent,

Indeed, some specific sections of the road bed have been stabilized. Only one small dip was "filled in" The stabilization areas were portions of the road bed that had deep clay deposits. Those sections had rock and small "boulders" dumped into the holes to keep the road from sinking deeper. If you'll note, I never mentioned sand or gravel or "hard pan". Basically, now that Drummond's trails are about to be included in the State's ORV inventory, some work will be done at times, as needed, to stabilize the trail. The rocks, et all, that were placed into the deeper holes have no binding agents.. thus with traffic and rain fall etc.. will in a short time become a jumbled mess. Least that's the plan.

Because of all the new attention being placed on the island's trails as we work thru this process of having them inventoried as a ORV route, some work was required had to take place in order to appease some of the nay sayers..i.e... forest certification folk. However, that being said,,, the stones will quickly shift and alter their position, making travel down that road much more interesting than a simple mud hole.. What Strader was talking about in regards to the road bed was a simple compromise required to move the process forward.. It won't be long before that stone works its way free.

Also.. yes, the plan is for the snowmobile grooming to travel thru the center of the loop...

Walker

[MuddyPaws 3.0]

That's bull. Look at this pic.

http://www.timstrader.com/web/land-use/DSCF0141.JPG

Where are the "boulders"? That hole is filled in and hard packed.

Only one small dip was filled in? I guess i'll have to go back out there and take more pictures. Maybe 50% of the water holes on that side of the trail are filled in. And it still looks like they are doing more.

[whiterhino]

Tim,
Ever since the fiasco where the folks from Jeep Jamboree got a ticket and Marble Head was considered off limits GLFWDA has been deeply involved with getting it opened back up. On a personal note, I have not been involved and don't know a lot more than hall talk that "good things will come from this". I too am skeptical but since I have been invited to meetings and never been able to make one, I only have myself to blame for being ill informed.

On the flip side, for years, we as a community have been bitching that our ORV routes are nothing more than flat connectors to allow quads etc to legally get from one trail to another and offer NOTHING in the way of 4x4 challenges for full size vehicles. I am being told that most of what people enjoy on Drummond will now be catagorized as ORV routes including Marble Head. So............ if this is true and we lose one or 2 mud holes, I would say that the efforts have been successful. However, if the only routes we get become 100% hard packed and all we get out of it is the ability to go up and down Marble Head, I would say we lost big time. At this point, all we can do is wait and see.

I also agree that Walkers description and your pictures definitely do not gell.

I wish that you had not quite GLFWDA when you did as you would have been the perfect person to represent us in the proper light. You understand the challenge side of things and what we enjoy (IE Canada) and I'm not sure that those representing us have the same thing in mind when discussing what a truely built 4x4 is looking for in the way of challenges.

[MuddyPaws 3.0]

I am re-thinking my stand on GLFWDA at this time Jim. We will see. I am talking to people.

The loss of a couple of mud holes is not that big of a deal I agree, but I for sure don't want the whole road paved and then have them say LOOK! You still have the steps. Half of the fun was getting to the steps. There already was an easy way into Marblehead...the left from Corn Beef junction. The right was the fun way and now it's....less fun.

I have to figure out how to get involved with this. I don't want to see these trails get paved.

[Trail_Fanatic]

Grandman is right, mostly.

There will be some other 'stabilization' to happen too.
The hole Tim is showing is (if it's the one I think it is) the exception to the 'stabilization' program.
That fill is intended to be permanent. The 'stabilization' that has happened to date is more than is what was intended, and it has been discussed with the maintenance contractor.
Future stabilization shouldn't be quite as thick in cross section.

The idea, except for the one's that will end up leaching over into the surrounding ecosystems, is to put some fill into the water holes that are clay bottomed so that over time the rocks will get pushed into the clay and offer additional support for the vehicle. This should slow or halt the deepening of the ruts, BUT it is intended to have a final settled depth that puts the fill below the current water line. The Department and Forest Certification folks have a harry, conniption fit when they see go-around trails develop as a result of an obstacle that is impassable. We have been unable to convince them of the logic in designating the hole AND developing a permanent, DEDICATED, bypass to the obstacle, so that the route is able to service multiple experience and vehicle ability levels, but we're not about to give up on that fight - ever. we will probably have to do so temporarily on this project to get it passed, but after it's official, we'll be right back to work on it again.


I posted this about it on the GLWFDA website:

GLFWDA has made several trips to the Island to work on this issue.
There are still one or two hurdles to overcome before announcements can be made with surety but we ARE getting right down to the nitty-gritty end of the process.

There will be a few areas that require stabilization to prevent deterioration over time, and a couple that will require a more permanent solution to presently evolving damage, but the bigger obstacles are looking very good for final approval at this point. Most importantly, the Island's rugged, rocky, back country, 4x4 driving 'experience' will be preserved. We just have to be sure that it is preserved in a manner that won't bankrupt maintenance funding nor "maintain" the system out of the need for 4x4 use.

It's a tricky and fine line to try to get put on paper.

[Trail_Fanatic]

Oh . . .

I forgot to mention that the snowmobile club is going to start using a different trail, so there shouldn't be future conflict.

:thumb:

[MuddyPaws 3.0]

Pat, although I commend your work on this, I feel that you have been misled. Every hole we encountered was filled the same way with hard pack and no boulders to be seen.

If they were going to fill it with rocks....why not just dump some rocks in there? Why add all the dirt and gravel and stuff. That stuff isn't going anywhere any time soon.

As for the water hole, that water hole has been there for as long as I have been going out on the island to hunt, fish or wheel. Can't say it's changed very much in all those years.

[Trail_Fanatic]

That may be, although I sure hope not.
I hope it was just a misunderstanding over a new form of maintenance that hasn't been done on behalf of the Department yet.
I was warned that it was overboard, but won't get a chance to see it until Tuesday.

Maybe we'll have to help nature speed the process here and there where appropriate.
First and foremost, let's get the thing designated.
Once all the attention has shifted on to other things, we will still be working with Rob Katona (a GREAT addition to the Department - VERY understanding of the sport) to improve what's been designated. There might even be hope for the clay pits someday but we have to take baby step to that goal or the opposition gets up in arms.

It's the "One Inch Rule".
If there's opposition to moving an object one foot.
Move it one inch in that direction and wait a while.
Then move it again and wait.
Do that 12 times and you've moved it the foot without anyone complaining and possibly even noticing.

It's the same method being used to close all the two tracks.
Close them all at once and people would be in arms.
Only close a few a year and complaints are kept to a manageable and ignorable level.

[GNJEEPN]

Looks like they have been busy. When we were up there earlier this year nothing had been done at all yet. :yikes:

[MuddyPaws 3.0]

I was going to point out the road to the clay pits to the others in the group I was leading when we drive by but the road is totally overgrown and I couldn't see it.