This Fram oil filter nonsence...

[Captain Ledd]

Ok, I keep seeing this recent (to me at least) internet phenomenon about how everybody has turned against Fram filters. My family has used Fram oil filters on every single one of our vehicles. We have for very, very many years. I find it difficult to believe that we have not had a single problem with our engines if these filters break down and stop filtering.

This has been across over a dozen vehicles and at LEAST 800,000 miles, more likely 900,000+ well over the last decade when it's all combined. including some somewhat higher mileage engines. My dads Ion is just over a year old and already has 60K racked up on it - our fleet currently consists of 5 full functional vehicles. My Ranger has 183K on it, never once had an engine problem. All of our vehicles have ran just a good as when we bought them, in some cases better after we got them (got a few used from other family members).

There was only one instance of an engine failure and that was with our '95 Taurus, and I believe now that it was just a head gasket, which I've heard about them going bad on alot of the 4.0's around that time frame. ~100,000 - 120,000 something miles, I forget exactly.

So does anyone actually have any hard evidence? pictures of tests done? cut one open and peeked inside with their own eyes? As far as I'm concerned it's all bullroar.

We have several Fram filters in service right now. I've told my dad to save them when he changes the oil next, I'll be sure to check inside.

Thoughts? Stories? anything?

[sglide]

no idea?
where have you been seeing this info?

[xjmichigan]

Yes, there are a lot of cars with a lot of miles on them that have run nothing but Fram filters. Fram filters meet the manufacturer's requirements and are adequate for the job but Fram has a rather low filter element surface area, and features cardboard end caps that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals the rough metal backplate to the cardboard end cap and that easily leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. If you have a noisy valve train at startup, the filter is likely the cause.

[Captain Ledd]

I always attributed that to regular noise before the oil pressure came back up. This drain back stuff is kinda new to me. I can take a brand new filter and if I don't get it screwed on quick enough it'll start draining out the end. The only part that doesn't allow oil to go back in that I've noticed is the holes around the center, and the filter is above the oil line so I don't know how dirty oil would get back in. The particular issue I've heard is that the paper element breaks up and disintegrates/dissolves, whichever way you want to put it.

sglide,

I originally saw it on a post on Great Lakes, and started asking around about it, and alot of people looked at me like "you mean you didn't know?"

Back to xjmichigan, I can see where your comming from with the low filter element surface area. The current filter that is on the Ranger is a Car Quest filter that I decided to try since it was even larger than the "upgrade size" in the Fram filters. I still have not found a Fram filter similar is size that will fit. Anyways, it did seem like the Car Quest filter had alot more material in it so I decided to give it a shot, they had them cut open and they didn't looks too bad inside. The filter I have on there is big enough to take the oil capacity out to 6 quarts for a 2.3L 4cyl. Last oil change before winter and I knew I probably wouldn't get to it for a while so I figured I'd go big.

It clacks a little on startup, but once the oil pressure comes back up (like maybe second at most) it stops.

[TRUP]

If not a Fram filter (which I use), what would be a better brand to use?

[Grandman]

I dont buy into this either . Better filters out there probable true . Is Fram a " bad " filter i dont think so .

Some one with a little internet pull starts there oppinion as fact and the followers jump in line .

[Captain Ledd]

I dont buy into this either . Better filters out there probable true . Is Fram a " bad " filter i dont think so .

Some one with a little internet pull starts there oppinion as fact and the followers jump in line .

This is exactly what I was thinking. I was curious as to if there was some actual fact to these claims because time and time again no one ever really stated any study or test or anything. Just that they broke down.

[xj4life]

If not a Fram filter (which I use), what would be a better brand to use?

for oil filters i've been using Mobil1 filters on my Jeep and Napa Gold on my truck.

[user name]

I have always used a WIX filter you can feel the difference in weight between them and a fram. as for the high mileage I know a guy that claimed he ran an early 50's chevy truck with no filter ever over 250,000. if you want to spend some money go cut a fram, wix, and napa gold for the same car apart. I bet the wix will have the most filter material followed by the napa gold and fram will have the least. also the spring they use on the bottom of the filter is a small coil spring on the wix instead of a spring steal piece on the fram. I personally wouldn't worry to much but like with everything you get what you pay for and Fram filters are cheap.

[xjmichigan]

speaks for it self.
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

[Captain Ledd]

just thought of something... there's talk about dirty oil draining back into the pan, isn't that where the dirty oil is kept anyways? Still doesn't mention anything about the filter element deteriorating.

seems lots of filters use a similar anti drain back valve system as the Frams...

I'm still not buying this "bypass valves not molded correctly" causing leaks. like stamped steal is guaranteed a correct shape when it's stamped out?

About the only real drawback to a Fram is a cardboard endcap and a small filter area. I suppose it could come unglued, any more evidence as to this? I'd think if it came unglued from the cardboard it'd come unglued from the steel also.

Some good data no doubt, I'd like to see how they faired in the tests that were mentioned though.

[Sandals]

if you want to spend some money go cut a fram, wix, and napa gold for the same car apart.


FYI WIX makes the Napa filters

[Grandman]

This idea of noise lifters do to the brand of oil filter . Either your saying the oil is dirty do to the filter or its total crap .

The filter it self has nothing to do with oil draining down in a lifter . If the oil is contaminated either by a poor filter ( im guessing thats what you mean ) or from not changing it i could have to do with lifter rattle .

now the anti drain back on an oil filter , most hang down , there not going to drain to the pan no matter what . few exceptions where the filter was put upside down by some dumb engeneer .

[Tonka]

K&N Gold and AMSOIL full synthetic here every 3,000 - 6,000 miles depending on conditions driven in and oil color.

[user name]

FYI WIX makes the Napa filters

We use the Napa gold filters at work they feel lighter than the Wix to me(shells are the same) but I could very well be wrong. Just because they are made by the same company doesn't mean they have to live up to the same standards. Again I really don't think what filter you use really matters nearly as much as regularly changing the oil.

[sodapop]

Read the oil filter study link posted above. Good information.

Personally, I use AC delco. Not expensive and not a FRAM. The last time I bought a fram was several years ago. I had read the above filter study and thought, "Ehh, I change them enough anyway." I went to the store, grabbed the FRAM and by some random chance, decided to look inside... there was metal pieces inside. Yup, that's right, the punch outs were in the can. I put it back on the shelf and haven't bought a FRAM since. Sure the punch outs were to big to make a difference but if the quality control doesn't notice the punch outs inside, what else do they miss.....

[jsawduste]

Back when I worked at the GM Tech Center one of the tests done was to detemine filter effieceny (sp).

Factory AC Delco are designed with the construction, particulate holding/loading that the General felt safe in being able to warrenty an engine for it`s typical lifetime.

While the filter is important. The main thing is to not let the drain interval stretch out to long. The newer oils (CJ for instance) have modifed chemical make up(s) to allow them to last longer. In addition the fuels we burn have had MAJOR changes in there chemistry. All of which is allowing for the extend drain periods.

For my money the Mobil 1 is what I want to use.

[cjric]

I used to do carton work (graphic design) for a prepress company. One of our printers customers was Hastings Filters. I worked on labels, boxes, etc for them that said everything from Fram, Napa, Wix, Delco, Penske, Purolator, etc. ONE manufacturer makes most of the filters out there. They may use diff. standards for diff. names, but for the most part, they are all the same w/ diff. colors/labels.

Same goes for shocks and batteries. 3 or 4 diff designs, one manufacturer that are marketed as a dozen or more diff. brands and models.

[Jeepr]

Didn't Fram go overseas for production a few years ago? That may be why this originated.

[Redleg]

I've only read about diesels haveing issues with them myself. You figure a diesel has the same or higher pressure with much thicker oil. My understanding was the oil injectors that spray the bottom of the cylinders in the diesel are what have gotten plugged by loose filter media. Other possible problems are the tight clearnces in the turbo and bearings. I have to change my oil about every month on my car, so I just use a store brand filter, but on the Cummins it's Fleetgaurd or Wix.

[Captain Ledd]

Seems to me if it was plugging something as wide as a oil squirter it'd take out some bearings or something else first. I could see the thicker oil and higher pressure, and maybe throw in if you let the filter stay on for longer than it's recommended. I could conceive stuff falling apart then.

Maybe somebody let theirs stay on for 3x longer than it was recommended with thicker oil than recommended and started blabbing all over the internet about what pieces of crap they were. It's not like thats ever happened before with anything.

Though since I have now learned all this stuff I'm not sure I am going to use Fram anymore. not because of the falling apart thing, but more just the lack of filter material inside of them. That one fact bugs me. Basically according to that every filter out there has at least about 100cm² more filter material. thats 50% or more more in alot of cases!

That study was done in 2003.. I'm sure some things have probably changed. maybe I will buy a few for giggles and grins. I'm finishing my truck though first.

[FineWynsFJ40]

I use only CarQuest filters for my Land Cruisers, and only their premium grade at that. I cut one open just before I rebuilt my engine, and there was a bunch of metal filings and other stuff that was in there, plus I was highly impressed with the construction and design of their filters. I use standard GM filters for my Buick, never had a problem there either. I'd say use CarQuest Premium or AC Delco, you can't go wrong either way.

Brian

[Duffman]

Personally, I use the Purolator "Pure One" premium filters.

In testing, they're virtually the same as Mobil1 or K&N and only cost $1 - $1.50 more than store brand (unless you find a sale).

[longarm]

This is all interesting. I'll be digging some more. I have been using the Fram Tough Guard filter with a change of every 5K miles w/ Royal Purple. Before I was using K&N Filters. I want the best for my Jeep. SO, that means I'll be reading some more. I DO know that if you use nothing by the manufacturer filter and you have an oil filter problem resulting in engine problems, the manu should cover it. My dad had that problem with his Explorer. The filter went bad and blew out causing the engine to seize at about 220K miles. He got a brand new motoor from Ford because he used only Motorcraft filters. Something to think about.

[Haggar]

I DO know that if you use nothing by the manufacturer filter and you have an oil filter problem resulting in engine problems, the manu should cover it.

LOL, not quite. There is no such thing as zero PPM, and there's no reason a manufacturer should cover outside the stated warrenty period, which, by purchasing the vehicle you have implicitly agreed to.

Furthermore, there's no possible method to verify claims of maintenence, or product tampering.

:fryingpan:

I've never had any issue with Fram filters, over the last 15 years of using them.

[jsawduste]

Again I want to state. While some filters may have features or advantages over another.

The key element is to change your oil often enough so as to not to worry if one filter is better then another.

[MuddyPaws 3.0]

just thought of something... there's talk about dirty oil draining back into the pan, isn't that where the dirty oil is kept anyways?

:hehe::hehe::hehe:


:thumbsup: